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Post by thezombodilehunter on Nov 29, 2006 20:09:23 GMT
I was told by a friend of mine that this was already discussed/shot down, but i figured id post an idea I was thinking about in this regard. I think that the other self-revivication was shot down because of how it worked so this idea may be better, who knows . When a surviver is first killed rather then have just "Stand up" as a zombie they would also have another option if they currently carried a syringe "Self-Revive" or something to that effect. If they chose stand up they became a zombie, if they used revive they would stand back up with as a survivor with maybe half hp and infections bite on them. AP would have to be set balanced, maybe something like 3-5 or 8-10 if the zombie had a particular skill. To balance this ability zombies could have a similar skill to feeding drag, or possibly just an addition skill added to feeding drag. When this ability was used a survivor could not self rez, but it would cost the zombie a few extra action points then normal to do this. This ability would not be very important to your casual zombie attacking a random survivor but during large attacks it could be important.
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Post by grigori on Nov 29, 2006 20:39:43 GMT
Alright, this needs a few changes to be credible. First of all, 3-5 ap is less than it normally costs to get a revive. If anything, it would need to either be much more, or have a a percentage for it to work. Overall, it would need to have the more ap used in the end than it would just to get revived. So let's figure this out:
A survivor with no zombie skills after being killed has to stand up for 10. It takes, let's say, about 8 ap to get to a revive point. The person revivng spends about 8 ap finding a syringe, 4 ap getting to the revive point, and 10 reviving the zombie.
10+8+8+4+10= 40 AP
So, it would have to cost about 45 average AP in order for this to be fair, up to 50 because of the convenience of self-revival. We could do this two ways:
1. We could make it a percentage to success. This is the most likely course of action. Let's say it costs 14 AP as a zombie, with a 40% chance of success. That would mean it would cost about 35 AP to carry out the revivication, while finding the approximately 2 1/2 syringes needed would cost 20.
That adds up to about 55 AP to carry out self-revivication. It would need Necrotech Employment, of course, but that looks fair to me.
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Post by thezombodilehunter on Nov 29, 2006 21:22:29 GMT
Main reason i thought of this idea was it seems to easy for zombies to take out defenders when the zombies are organized.
A fully xped zombie can have 50 ap, get killed, and stand back up with 44-49 AP. I don't see how its not fair for a survivor to do at least similar while possibly not even, but similar.
Im not comparing it to a Survivor trying to get revived im comparing it to how easy it is for zombies vs survivors to keep territory.
Now im sure you also have more understanding on this as well then i do as ive only been playing for about a month and a half.
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Post by grigori on Nov 29, 2006 22:01:11 GMT
If there's one thing survivors aren't good at, other than not killing each other, it's holding property. Zombies are basically unkillable, so if a big enough group of them wants to take an area bad enough, they will. The only times this hasn't been the case were at Caiger Mall way back when and more recently the Moorish Building near Giddings, where in both cases the zombies got bored and left after month-long seiges. Even this skill wouldn't help us too much in those regards, just piss off the already pissed off zombie players who think they are treated unfairly by Kevan in terms of gameplay.
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Post by thezombodilehunter on Nov 29, 2006 22:10:53 GMT
Yeah i thought it might help humans ability to hold property which ones the point, but i guess that just might be something we are not supposed to do, ever heh.
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Post by Ty on Nov 29, 2006 23:10:52 GMT
I had a wild idea reading this. Probably not a better solution, but I thought I'd write it down anyway.
Make self-reviving a zombie skill under Memories of Life, so you'd have to spend some time dead to get it (or save up a lot of xp before you die). Once you have the skill, you can use a syringe you had while you were alive on yourself, but it costs twice as much as when you're alive (20ap), and it still knocks you down. With this, you'd have to spend ap ahead of time getting a syringe for yourself, plus have xp for the skill, and you'll still have to stand up twice. If you don't have Ankle Grab, that adds up to 40ap (10+20+10). Naturally, once you're revived, it would be a good idea to stay down and recharge your ap before standing up as a human again. That's also not counting the ap required to get the syringe in the first place, though.
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Post by carlpanzram on Nov 30, 2006 21:29:34 GMT
I'm against this as it makes revivification far too easy. I think it should have an inherent risk of failure perhaps as high as 50%. You're a zombie not a survivor. You might not empty the syringe or you might not put it in an artery.
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Post by thezombodilehunter on Nov 30, 2006 22:45:25 GMT
I'm against this as it makes revivification far too easy. I think it should have an inherent risk of failure perhaps as high as 50%. You're a zombie not a survivor. You might not empty the syringe or you might not put it in an artery. Actually my point for the skill was your where not a Zombie yet, you are lying on the ground, dying from being attacked and you use the a syringe you are carrying to save your own life. Tho that still doesn't mean there cannot be a risk of failure. (Unless you are talking about Tycoons post, then i appologize.)
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Post by Ty on Nov 30, 2006 23:02:28 GMT
I know what you're saying, but the idea of using the syringe on yourself at the last minute before you die seems unrealistic. You're not going to be online when you're dying, and most people are against offline actions.
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Post by Rakk on Dec 1, 2006 6:39:09 GMT
Any and all offline actions are a bad idea. I do like Ty's addendum to this idea though. Way to go Ty.
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Post by carlpanzram on Dec 1, 2006 11:49:46 GMT
I'm against this as it makes revivification far too easy. I think it should have an inherent risk of failure perhaps as high as 50%. You're a zombie not a survivor. You might not empty the syringe or you might not put it in an artery. Actually my point for the skill was your where not a Zombie yet, you are lying on the ground, dying from being attacked and you use the a syringe you are carrying to save your own life. Tho that still doesn't mean there cannot be a risk of failure. (Unless you are talking about Tycoons post, then i appologize.) Another thing that I'm uncertain of are the mechanics of the syringe in the first place. Did Kevan mean to imply that the shot was in the neck into and artery or into the spine? If it's into the spine self revivification should be impossible.
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Post by thezombodilehunter on Dec 1, 2006 12:40:04 GMT
I know what you're saying, but the idea of using the syringe on yourself at the last minute before you die seems unrealistic. You're not going to be on line when you're dying, and most people are against offline actions. You may in fact be on line tho i probably not. The main reason for this skill was so that a group of survivors could fend off a zombie horde rather then just lose. Primarily came to mind when me and a buddy decided to get together a force to take back Perryn, tho realized its basically impossible as the game stands now. The idea was meant more "stop malls from getting owned" and meant less for "random survivor rezing after death" so maybe this idea would not be good as it would serve more then my original intent and would also make it harder for newb survivors as there we be less reason for revive points and they would probably disappear. (I retract my idea on grounds that its not going to do what i was intended ) True that may also be a reason for it to not work. All in all, as it was mentioned in the thread, is it really a good idea to completely invest in "realism"? This game seems heavy on the meta gaming..... not to mention zombies (although zombies isn't totally a reason to remove realism). I just think realism isn't a good argument. A person SHOULD react to events that happen when the are offline, bullets should wake people up. Zombie hoards rampaging my house should wake me up. Since we are willing to suspend that realism, why not a bit more? Lastly its not really an offline action anyways. It doesn't actually happen until you log in. Dying is an offline action and all seem ok with that . Also, just for my refrence, has there been any offline actions within the game that have been removed because they dont work or is this purely and assumption that has become "fact"?
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Post by yopuii on Dec 2, 2006 18:13:48 GMT
I'm not sure where to stand on this one.
It'd have to take a lot of AP to do it, if possible. But I am standing towards it. Because a lot of times I'm stuck waiting for 3-5 days for some slow 'tard to get his ass to the revive.
But what makes it quicker is posting on multiple revive forums
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Remellion
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Post by Remellion on Dec 2, 2006 23:50:48 GMT
All right, I'm sorry, but I really don't see the logic here. Dying is automatic and not an option, but self-revivfying is optional (skill acquisition). If it wasn't an offline action, then how would the body be freshly killed? It would have long since degenerated into a zombie.
This may be a bit overpowered, for the high-level survivors (like me!) can afford to waste 24 hours' worth of AP reviving themselves. the next 24 hours, they then proceed to stock up on syringes and shoot down zeds. The abundance of syringes and decent find rates make a survivor as such pretty much unconvertable.
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Post by ramidel on Dec 16, 2006 19:14:08 GMT
I've got to calm down, I'm so busy laughing at all you people who think this will help survivors.
Apparently, none of you have fought or fought alongside Shacknews. You know, those guys who turned ZSing into a high art. You've also never been in a building when my character zombified without notice, whacked the genny and infected half the population while everyone wondered how a zed got into an EHB fortress. You've also never been a victim of SirensDiscord.
With this ability, DNR lists become completely useless. That infected Shacknewser just shambles next to an entry point, shoots 'imself full of syringe, hides in the nearest safehouse and waits. Next day he hauls ass to the NT building, finds himself a new syringe, and then slips into the mall to die and live again. Sirens, similarly, no longer needs to rely on naive Necrotechs or fellow Red Rummers for survival, she can help herself. --- In short, this isn't a survivor aid, this is a zombie buff. Please treat it on that basis. ^_^
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Post by carlpanzram on Dec 22, 2006 19:04:01 GMT
I'm not sure where to stand on this one. It'd have to take a lot of AP to do it, if possible. But I am standing towards it. Because a lot of times I'm stuck waiting for 3-5 days for some slow 'tard to get his ass to the revive. But what makes it quicker is posting on multiple revive forums Where are you reviving? I can jump out a window with my breather every day and get revived every day without posting on a single list.
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Post by carlpanzram on Dec 22, 2006 19:06:38 GMT
I've got to calm down, I'm so busy laughing at all you people who think this will help survivors. Apparently, none of you have fought or fought alongside Shacknews. You know, those guys who turned ZSing into a high art. You've also never been in a building when my character zombified without notice, whacked the genny and infected half the population while everyone wondered how a zed got into an EHB fortress. You've also never been a victim of SirensDiscord. With this ability, DNR lists become completely useless. That infected Shacknewser just shambles next to an entry point, shoots 'imself full of syringe, hides in the nearest safehouse and waits. Next day he hauls ass to the NT building, finds himself a new syringe, and then slips into the mall to die and live again. Sirens, similarly, no longer needs to rely on naive Necrotechs or fellow Red Rummers for survival, she can help herself. --- In short, this isn't a survivor aid, this is a zombie buff. Please treat it on that basis. ^_^ Pardon me but I believe that the people defending the malls from Shacknews are responsible for that. Too many people view combat reviving as a viable option during a siege. They taught you otherwise. My zeds would have done the same thing.
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Post by ramidel on Dec 25, 2006 7:13:34 GMT
Touche, but that doesn't change my point. Someone copying Shacknews' tactics no longer has to rely on newbies and idiots.
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Post by xxxflarexxx on Dec 27, 2006 7:42:22 GMT
I personnally would advise against making revivifaction cost that many ap because if you use that much your not going to be left with much and zombies will just kill you in a second anyways.
Too solve the problem of self revivifaction it would make sense to just make more revive points.
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Delacroix(Rei)
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Post by Delacroix(Rei) on Dec 27, 2006 13:33:21 GMT
I personnally would advise against making revivifaction cost that many ap because if you use that much your not going to be left with much and zombies will just kill you in a second anyways. Too solve the problem of self revivifaction it would make sense to just make more revive points. Someone has a high opinion of themselves...
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